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running rigs on the mersey.

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:02 pm
by seasonal carper
Was thinking on the subject of presenting baits on the deck for cod. I like the idea of a lead runing up a long trace with with a snap link swivel at the buisness end for replacing snoods without the fuss of retying nots. As a newcomer to the sport would like to hear other peoples veiws on this b4 i go casting out a poorley presented bait. And would i be losing alot of end tackle to snags in the river fishing this way?

Cheers in advance
mark

Re: running rigs on the mersey.

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 2:24 pm
by Ken the PACMAN
There are two ways of looking at trace length.
A long trace say 4 foot might give a better presentation with a wider scent trail in some circumstances and by the time a bite has registered the fish may well be hooked.The reason the scent trail is longer is because the bait will wave around more in the flow of the current in theory but this is dependant on the flow and the obvious chance that the bait could be snagged on say a mussel bed or other bottom debris.It is harder to cast with some type of pulley rig or an up and over rig required,free running rigs do not work very well in the river for several reasons but are often used for uptiding.
The short trace around 2 foot or less will give a better bite indication as the lead will be pulled out giving the normal "drop back" type of Cod bite it is also easier to cast and less likely to tangle although the bow in the shockleader can interfere with bait at times but this is more common with uptiding rigs used off a boat.
I think you should try both and draw your own conclusion as to which works best for you but to put it in freshwater terms I would have no problem fishing a 4/5 even 6 foot tail/hooklength when ledgering and holding the rod,moving the bait actively looking for bites,in other words "in touch with the bait"
In a carp fishing situation with a self hooking trap waiting to be sprung with the rod on a rest and me sat a distance away your hooklength is going to be 3" to 12" generally so there is your clue.

Re: running rigs on the mersey.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:21 am
by seasonal carper
Ken the PACMAN wrote:There are two ways of looking at trace length.
A long trace say 4 foot might give a better presentation with a wider scent trail in some circumstances and by the time a bite has registered the fish may well be hooked.The reason the scent trail is longer is because the bait will wave around more in the flow of the current in theory but this is dependant on the flow and the obvious chance that the bait could be snagged on say a mussel bed or other bottom debris.It is harder to cast with some type of pulley rig or an up and over rig required,free running rigs do not work very well in the river for several reasons but are often used for uptiding.
The short trace around 2 foot or less will give a better bite indication as the lead will be pulled out giving the normal "drop back" type of Cod bite it is also easier to cast and less likely to tangle although the bow in the shockleader can interfere with bait at times but this is more common with uptiding rigs used off a boat.
I think you should try both and draw your own conclusion as to which works best for you but to put it in freshwater terms I would have no problem fishing a 4/5 even 6 foot tail/hooklength when ledgering and holding the rod,moving the bait actively looking for bites,in other words "in touch with the bait"
In a carp fishing situation with a self hooking trap waiting to be sprung with the rod on a rest and me sat a distance away your hooklength is going to be 3" to 12" generally so there is your clue.


Cheera for that mate i shal take all advice onboard. When startin.g sea fishing last year i yhaugh i could aply alot of my freshwater experiance into my aproach but im starting to realise its a totaly difrent ball game. The only simalarity as with all fishing is location and feature finding. As u mentioned been intouch with the bait is it possible to use say a 4oz plain lead an tumble my baits with the tide to cover more water on a session? If i was to travle light with 1 rod and my bucket with all my bits and peices?

Cheers
mark

Re: running rigs on the mersey.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:40 am
by Steve Duffy
Mark try tumbling a 4oz weight on the mersey and see what happens.It will either end up back on the beach or dragged into snags.Look at the rig setup on my recent ferry report.I use a fixed lead with an 8 to 10inch hooklength as I believe that coddling feed very close to the bottom.At this time of the year I want to catch cod not whiting.You will catch whiting but not be hammered by them like you do with a longer trace.This is what I do,believe in,and have confidence in.I'm sure not everyone will agree.Each to their own say I. 8)

Re: running rigs on the mersey.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:10 am
by seasonal carper
I see what you mean. Its almost like a helicoptor rig.. with the hooklength fixed above the lead. In the strong pull of the river does this mean the bait will be wafting around a few inches off the bottom? Looks good, i like the idea and it looks prety simple to tie
cheers steve i will try it next time along side my usual pulley pennel see wich one works best on the day

Re: running rigs on the mersey.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:38 am
by Steve Duffy
I like to keep the bait as close to the deck as possible if I am after cod. ;)

Re: running rigs on the mersey.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:54 am
by seasonal carper
An i noticed you was the only person to take a cod that day. Was your mates using a simlar kind of rig or...?

Re: running rigs on the mersey.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:57 am
by Steve Duffy
seasonal carper wrote:An i noticed you was the only person to take a cod that day. Was your mates using a simlar kind of rig or...?


I think they were on flapper type rigs.

Re: running rigs on the mersey.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:02 pm
by seasonal carper
Thanks for the advice steve. Hopefully i shal have a fiah or two for thw catch reports this weekend ;)

Re: running rigs on the mersey.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:41 pm
by jaygo
i normally fish a single flowing hook lenth of about 4ft long fixed in the same way as a flapper rig about 2 inches up from the lead.

and to make casting easier i just pass the hook over the breakaway grips on the lead and ive never had any problems casting or the bait tangling.....

i also had a nice cod on the same rig last night along with a load of whiting...(never seen so many whiting in the river of a decent size)there still a pain in the :doh:

i find using a bolt type carp rig always snaps the leader after heavy casting as the lead is constantley rubbing the leader.

this year i keep meaning to play around with pva thread to see if it works in saltwater so i can clip up long flowing rigs that way......

last year i had a go with hallibut pellets (the crabs liked them )and whiting liked boily :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: running rigs on the mersey.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:29 pm
by seasonal carper
Dont think il be trying boilys on ther but i can think of a few liquid bait addatives that would work wonders on a big wrap bait. Salmon oil been 1, halibut oil. Mainline range. I guess the stinkier the better :) any idea wer i can get a shringe from without looking like the local smackhead? Hah

Re: running rigs on the mersey.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:31 pm
by Steve Duffy
seasonal carper wrote:Dont think il be trying boilys on ther but i can think of a few liquid bait addatives that would work wonders on a big wrap bait. Salmon oil been 1, halibut oil. Mainline range. I guess the stinkier the better :) any idea wer i can get a shringe from without looking like the local smackhead? Hah


I worked in a lab for 20 years so had easy access but no longer.Try Amazon or google.

Re: running rigs on the mersey.

Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:25 pm
by Brian900
seasonal carper wrote:Dont think il be trying boilys on ther but i can think of a few liquid bait addatives that would work wonders on a big wrap bait. Salmon oil been 1, halibut oil. Mainline range. I guess the stinkier the better :) any idea wer i can get a shringe from without looking like the local smackhead? Hah

Fishing shop sell them for pike fishing, adding addatives to fish

Re: running rigs on the mersey.

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:31 am
by seasonal carper
Brian900 wrote:
seasonal carper wrote:Dont think il be trying boilys on ther but i can think of a few liquid bait addatives that would work wonders on a big wrap bait. Salmon oil been 1, halibut oil. Mainline range. I guess the stinkier the better :) any idea wer i can get a shringe from without looking like the local smackhead? Hah

Fishing shop sell them for pike fishing, adding addatives to fish

Dya no i never actualy thaught of that an its the most obviouse answer lol